Real Meeting, Real Relationship
From the May 6, 2016 evening meeting with John de Ruiter in Elspeet, The Netherlands
Q: Hi John. I would like to talk with you about your concept about relationships, because I know you are very clear that first it’s a long time to get to know each other, and then marry, and then have sex. To me the last years is total, I would say, opposite, without marriage and almost without relationship. But actually something in me is longing for deep relationship. The question is how I come from this concept to the other?
John: A real relationship is based on the two of you meeting. If you have any personal wants or needs, you can’t meet. You’re not available to meet. You’re already occupied with your wants and your needs.
Q: Aren’t the needs and wants just natural things of the body?
John: You don’t need them for the two of you to meet. Where there’s real meeting you have direct access into each other without acquiring anything, without getting something. When you were still in your innocence and you would directly meet with someone, you didn’t do that to get something.
Q: Aren’t these two different things: the meeting and the living?
John: The dearness in meeting is everything. For real relationship you don’t need anything else, and nothing comes in between the two of you, Your selves don’t come in between the two of you; want and need doesn’t come in between the two of you.
Q: These things happen in parallel? There is a deep meeting and there is physical meeting. It comes together or is it totally different, has nothing to do with the physical?
John: Totally different until it’s everything and then it also shows in everything. It comes through in everything.
Q: It starts from the very inside and it shows on the outside?
John: And everything that it shows through doesn’t make it better. The dearness that’s there in the two of you meeting is complete. Nothing from the outside-in can make it better and, when you stay there, it grows from the inside-out.
Q: What you say increases my longing for this kind of meeting.
John: When you meet with anyone, don’t take that to any next step in your self. You’ll compromise the meeting and the clear dearness that’s there so that you can have what you think you need in your self. You don’t need your past, your self, or your patterns for you to meet with another.
When you build a real relationship, you’re building together with that unseen substance that doesn’t appeal to your self but is directly dear to you. The more that you build being together, levels within deeper than your self move. That movement, the movement of your being, is your mobility in the relationship.
The movement of your being, of any level deeper within than your self, is your mobility in the relationship. That makes your movement love. The physical won’t do that for you, and engaging your selves won’t do that for you. The physical and engaging your selves belongs to your being. Use that for your self and you won’t be able to have a real relationship. What you’ll have is mutual exploitation.
Q: This needs time to meet in this and it has to be first.
John: If it isn’t first, it won’t be there. It’s first because it’s everything. Then you can add all of the containers to hold it, to carry it, without making it about the containers.
Q: I’m not sure about the containers?
John: The physical and your selves. They only matter as much as what they belong to. It isn’t their use that gives them meaning. It’s what they belong to that gives them all of their meaning. That re-contextualizes all that’s yours. Everything that’s yours is returned to your being.
Relationship isn’t for your self. Use it to satisfy your self and you’re using relationship to separate from your being. Relationship belongs to your being. You can’t use any regular model of relationship.
Q: Because they prove to be wrong?
John: Not wrong. It just doesn’t work. What makes it not deeply work is when it doesn’t belong to your being.
Q: It means that both need to be rooted in the being?
John: Yes, or at very least, residing in the heart and not leaving the heart to acquire anything.
Q: This is quite rare, to find together in the being?
John: Yes. It’s rare.
Q: But possible.
John: It’s what every relationship belongs to. It’s what every relationship can belong to. The basis of a real relationship is two deeply being together. It isn’t a companionship.
When two are being together, the fullness of love is there without anyone doing something. Then, in whatever you do, your beings are right there and love moves. It isn’t really about anything that you do together. Your unseen levels, the levels of your being, are meeting and communing without the two of you doing something. Then, in whatever you do, you are meeting and communing.
Q: Somehow I’m reminded of what you say now. Somewhere in my being there is this knowing about what you say…this old experience of knowing. Now this very, very old memory came up. It can reach to oneness and relationship with all that is around?
John: If it begins with the heart and relaxes even more deeply.
Q: Thank you John.